Sep 11, 2023
As demand for electricity increases, the need to diversify supply is also on the rise. In Episode 120 of thinkenergy, Lesley Gallinger, CEO of Ontario's Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO), unpacks what’s driving the transformation of the province’s power system, the potential opportunities, and the obstacles standing in the way. From hydrogen innovation to resource procurement, listen in to learn how the IESO is helping Ontario navigate to a cleaner, reliable, and affordable energy future.
● Lesley Gallinger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-gallinger-784a194/
● Lesley Gallinger on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lmgallinger
● IESO website: https://www.ieso.ca/
● Hydrogen Innovation Fund: https://www.ieso.ca/en/Get-Involved/Innovation/Hydrogen-Innovation-Fund/Overview
Powering Ontario’s Growth report:
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This is Think Energy, the podcast that helps you better understand the fast changing world of energy through conversations with game changers, industry leaders and influencers. So join me, Dan Seguin, as I explore both traditional and unconventional facets of the energy industry. Hey everyone, welcome back. In 1902 electrical pioneers met for the first time in Berlin now Kitchener, Ontario to discuss wiring Ontario's customers together to form a provincial electricity grid. Ontario's electricity grid, like all grids around the world was designed as a one way street, to generate, transmit, and deliver electricity to customers. It's no secret that nowadays new technologies are shaking up the way we produce and use electricity. Back then, these pioneers likely couldn't have imagined that the electricity grid would become a two way interactive system capable of supporting variable supply from renewable energy or accommodating electric vehicles, energy storage, home generation, and a host of other innovations. As the demand for electricity grows, Ontario's supply is diversifying, evolving and transforming at a speed we haven't seen in this industry. One thing is for certain, it's going to be one electrifying ride. On today's show, we're diving into the heart of Ontario's power system and shining a light on the organization that manages the province electricity sector. As we mentioned before, we are at the forefront of a power revolution. Of course, we need someone driving the ship to provide guidance on how Ontario's power system adopts a cleaner and more interactive machine. So here's today's big question. What is driving the transformation of Ontario's power system? And what are the potential opportunities and challenges? Joining us today is Lesley Gallinger, president and chief executive officer of the Ontario Independent Electricity System Operator. Under her leadership, the IESO oversees the safe and reliable operation of Ontario's bulk electricity system, ensuring affordable electricity is available when and where people need it. Lesley, so great to have you join us today. Now, your knowledge and experience of the electricity industry is extensive. Can you talk to us a bit about what drew you to a career in energy sector? And what led you to your current role?
Well, thank you for that, Dan. It's great to be here, and I have
spent the majority of my career in the electricity sector after
spending the first third in a different sector. I certainly
benefited from working all across North America and in Europe, for
some very sophisticated multinational organizations with very
talented team members. However, I always had this interest in
electricity. And just for a funny story, my first grade school in
Ontario was Sir Adam Beck, so I wonder if that was a bit of
foreshadowing. But in reality, I had friends and colleagues in the
sector who spoke quite passionately about the impact they were
making with the work they were doing. And I was attracted to that.
And sure I had some skills that I thought would be transferable.
And the role that I have now embodies all of that, as we at the
IESO are helping inform and execute on energy policy on electricity
policy, specifically that will support Ontarians as we transition
to an electrified and decarbonized future. I honestly couldn't
imagine a better role to be in at this moment.
At a high level Lesley, what is the Independent Electricity System Operator and what is it responsible for with respect to Ontario's power system?
The IESO works at the heart of Ontario's electricity system,
ensuring that electricity is available where and when it is needed.
We monitor Ontario's demand in real time, 24 hours a day, seven
days a week, balancing supply and demand and directing the flow of
electricity across the provinces transmission lines. We also
oversee the electricity market, which includes putting mechanisms
in place to increase competition and ensure cost effective supply.
And finally, we also plan the electricity system by working with
indigenous communities, with municipalities and stakeholders to
forecast demand and secure enough supply to meet Ontario's needs as
far as 20 years out.
Okay, very interesting. Finally, looking forward to your answer on this one here. Can you walk us through how you oversee and manage the electricity systems such as determining the type of supply required to meet demand for electricity in the province? In the short, medium, and long term?
Yeah, thanks that that is a good and big meaty question. So we've spoken a lot about where we are now. So after having years of surplus electricity, Ontario is entering a period of growing electricity needs and demand is expected to increase by an average of 2% annually over the next two decades due to electrification and economic growth in various sectors, including residential, agricultural, and mining. One way that the IESO helps meet these growing needs is by securing new supply. In the short term, we have the annual capacity auction that we conduct that allows existing resources to compete. This is cost effective and allows the IESO to adapt to changing supply and demand conditions on a year by year basis. We also look at three to five year commitments for other resources, this timeframe provides more certainty while ensuring it doesn't get locked into commitments that no longer reflect those changing needs of electrification. And finally, in the long term, we look 20 years out to secure resources that require significant upfront investments in order to give suppliers the confidence they need to make those investments. So it's a bit of a layer cake with those three timeframes.
Great segway here. Okay. What do you see as the IESOs role in the future planning of the evolving electricity grid and your role in supporting the changing energy needs of the decarbonized economy?
As Ontario's electricity system planner, we certainly have the long view. Our role is to ensure that Ontario's current and future energy needs are met both reliably and affordably. Our corporate strategy calls out three main ways in which we do this we ensure system reliability while supporting cost effectiveness, we're driving business transformation within the IESO and also driving and guiding the sector's future by working closely with indigenous communities, municipalities and stakeholders. On the decarbonisation front, our main role is to enable technologies that will help us decarbonize. There's lots of emerging energy resources that can help us build a zero emissions electricity grid and the IESO ensures that these resources can all participate in Ontario's electricity system and markets. We're procuring new resources under our flexible resource adequacy framework. We recently announced the procurement of over 800 megawatts of energy storage, which is the largest energy procurement energy storage procurement in Canada to date, that combined with 250 megawatts of the Oneida battery storage project, the IESO, with these projects, is taking steps to integrate this valuable and flexible resource. And in last December's publication of pathways to decarbonisation, we explored ways in which Ontario can move forward to an emissions-free electricity system. The Ministry of Energy consulted on our pathways report, and recently on July 10, very recently, announced a series of actions in its report powering Ontario's growth. And those actions include collaborating with Bruce Power and Ontario Power Generation on pre development work to to consider potential new nuclear generation reporting back on the design of our second long term procurement, which will acquire new non-emitting resources supporting a Ministry of Energy consultation on a post 2024 Conservation Demand Management Framework and assessing additional transmission needs to support new and growing generation and demand in the province. So quite a list of workforce ahead that we're very excited to undertake. And as our system operator for the province, we're certainly at the center of all of this. There'll be a continuing need for coordination with the broader electricity sector in order to plan an orderly transition to a decarbonize grid, there will also be an increased need to revisit how we plan the electricity system. The IESO is looking forward to working with the electrification and energy transition panel to identify ways to adapt and evolve existing frameworks in order to increase transparency and ensure communities and stakeholders are more aware of what we're doing and why. This work, the work of the EETP also takes a broader economy wide view, which reflects how the electricity sector is becoming increasingly dependent on other sectors like industry and transportation. So you know, in short, a lot of work and some very exciting work ahead.
Follow up question here for you. Now, some Ontarians are concerned about moving to variable renewable energy sources like wind and solar, while others are concerned about continuing use of natural gas. What have you uncovered in your work about these issues? And what would you like residents of Ontario to know?
Yeah great question Dan, every type of generation has its own
strengths and drawbacks based on its unique attributes, which is
why Ontario maintains a diverse supply mix that can adapt to
changing system conditions quickly. Renewables such as wind and
solar are not emitting when they generate electricity, but they're
also intermittent, meaning how much electricity they produce can
change rapidly in response to weather conditions. And to help with
this, the IESO is looking into hybrid facilities that combine
renewables with energy storage. By 2026 we'll also have about 1300
megawatts of energy storage on the grid, which will help more
efficiently integrate renewables. We're also going to start
designing our second long term procurement which will focus on
acquiring non-emitting resources and we'll be engaging on this with
stakeholders and communities as we go. Natural gas, for example,
has the main advantage that it can respond quickly to change in
demand and system conditions, making it an important resource for
us as we seek to maintain reliability. Ontario's demand fluctuates
constantly throughout the day, and having access to natural gas can
help us respond to sudden changes and maintain a balance across the
system. It's also very important to recognize and something I'd
like to emphasize for your listeners that overall emissions from
Ontario's electricity sector are extremely low, the sector accounts
for about 3% of the provinces total emissions. While this may
increase slightly in the future, the continued existence of natural
gas on the grid is an important resource to help us transition and
it'll enable the near term electrification of other sectors which
in total will drive down Ontario's emissions.
Okay Lesley, how will the efficiency upgrades at existing natural gas facilities contribute to meeting the growing demand? And what is the plan for these facilities as emerging technologies mature and the reliance on natural gas decreases?
Yes, and as I mentioned in my earlier remarks, Ontario's definitely entering a period of increased demand and so with many existing contracts expiring, and nuclear plants undergoing refurbishment or scheduled to be decommissioned, coupled with increasing electrification of other sectors, the province is going to need more power in the immediate future and the natural gas expansions can help with this. In our pathways to decarbonisation report, we looked at the questions the minister posed to us, we looked at a moratorium scenario that would phase out natural gas over time as newer non-emitting resources come online, and in the report we concluded that we could be less reliant on natural gas in Ontario by the year 2035 and completely phased out by 2050. Efforts were made to align this report with clean electricity regulations, and that recognizes that the contribution of natural gas may be restricted over time, but for the meantime, we have you know, the important transitional resource needs, the natural gas fulfills.
Okay. In May of 2023, the IESO announced that it was moving forward with the largest procurement of energy storage in Canada. What can you tell us about these storage projects and their benefits?
Yeah, this was a very exciting announcement for us the energy
storage projects we announced in May were for grid connected
battery storage systems, which will be an important step towards
the transition to a non-emitting supply mix, and will support grid
reliability. The procurement was the culmination of the work we've
done over the last several years to understand the potential of
battery storage to provide supply and reliability services to the
grid. The biggest advantage of energy storage is that it can charge
during off peak hours when the provincial electricity demand is low
and then inject energy back into the grid during peaks when demand
is high, which makes it very flexible and a resource that can help
us optimize the efficiency of other resource types. And we also see
battery storage as a key enabler of decarbonisation. It will help
us to integrate more renewables such as wind and solar onto the
system, but also get more out of our current nuclear and hydro
fleet. By charging during these off peak hours energy storage can
use up any surplus green power from Ontario's existing nuclear and
Now, how does this procurement help ensure system reliability during nuclear refurbishment and support the overall energy transformation in Ontario,
The procurement will help with the transition away from natural gas
and it's certainly about maintaining reliability at a time when
multiple refurbishments are underway. In particular, the Pickering
generating station is scheduled to go out of service mid decade and
so right around that time, those energy storage projects are
expected to be online. Certainly the timelines of the procurements
were aligned understanding what the system conditions would be at
Lesley, I'd like to dig into your fascinating pathway to decarbonisation report just a bit. Ontario has one of the cleanest electricity system in North America, contributing only 3% to the provinces greenhouse gas emissions, that doesn't sound like a lot. So why is it important to eliminate the remaining 3% of emissions from the grid?
Yeah, another another really interesting question and the subject of a lot of conversations we've been having we know that electricity use is going to increase in the coming years driven by an economic growth and electrification across other sectors. Transportation is becoming increasingly electrified as our industrial processes such as steel smelting, and as the pace of electrification speeds up the efforts and investments being made by businesses and households to electrify will increase society's reliance on electricity as a fuel and electricity is only as clean as the resources we use to make it. So that 3%, if we don't tackle that remaining 3%, we will see an increased reliance on less clean generating sources. I mean tackling climate change is certainly an economy wide effort and clean electricity is a fundamental enabler of those climate change solutions.
Thanks for that, Lesley. Now, I have a follow up question for you. The IESO presents two scenarios to address decarbonisation, what are they and what key assumptions and drivers were discovered with your analysis?
So our first scenario was the moratorium scenario where the IESO so
looked at restricting the procurement of additional natural gas.
And this assessment showed that a moratorium would be feasible
beginning in 2027, and that Ontario could be less reliant on
natural gas by 2035. At that point, the system would not require
additional emitting generation to ensure reliability provided that
other forms of non-emitting supply could be added to the system in
time to keep pace with demand growth. The second scenario is our
pathways to decarbonisation scenario, this scenario assumed
aggressive electrification of the transportation and industrial
sectors, and that attaining a completely decarbonized grid would be
possible by 2050, while balancing reliability and costs, so you can
see a lot of variables came to play in that second
Perfect. Thanks, Lesley. Now, what are your thoughts on where Canada stands on its road to meet the 2035 and 2050 targets?
Yeah, I think that's, you know, that's what we're all looking
towards and bridging the work of today with the needs of a
futurized decarbonized world will be challenging and complex, a
collaborative approach across all sectors of the economy will
certainly be necessary to achieve this. From Ontario's perspective,
we're in a strong starting position, our electricity system is
already close to 90% emissions free, most of the generation coming
from Hydro and Nuclear resources. And in our pathways report, we
identify that for Ontario, at least, a moratorium on natural gas
could be possible by 2035, and a fully decarbonized electricity
system by 2050 provided that new non-emitting supplies and surfaces
online. So we certainly had those goals in mind for Ontario as we
created that pathway so decarbonisation work.
Now Lesley, in your opinion, what are the biggest challenges facing the electricity industry in Canada today? And what are the biggest opportunities?
Yeah, I anchor on the word orderly because I've used it a lot. The
biggest challenge I see is managing the significant transformation
that's underway. And doing it in an orderly fashion,
electrification is requiring the electricity system to expand and
produce more power, while decarbonisation puts pressure on the grid
to rely more heavily on low carbon resources, many of which are
still in their early days of development. Across the country. Every
province is faced with similar challenges. The recently formed
Canadian Electricity Advisory Council will provide advice to the
Minister of natural resources on ways to accelerate investment and
promote sustainable, affordable, reliable electricity systems. And
I have the privilege of being on this panel. It's exciting work
with colleagues from across the country, many of whom come from
provinces in very different stages of decarbonisation. We're
sharing best practices and all working towards similar goals. For
Ontario, we're entering a period of emerging electricity system
needs starting in the 2020s. These electricity and energy capacity
needs will continue through to 2040. So demand is expected to
increase at nearly 2% per year as I mentioned earlier. All of this
presents incredible opportunities for Ontario's communities, new
technologies are creating economic growth opportunities and setting
the stage for Ontario to build a highly skilled workforce to push
to decarbonize will have significant impacts on economy wide
emissions reductions, and building the electricity grid of the
future also presents opportunities to collaborate and strengthen
relationships with indigenous communities and municipalities. Back
to my first comment, the pace of this change is a vital
consideration. We need to strike the right balance between
decarbonizing the grid, while it's still ensuring electricity and
energy remain reliable and affordable. If we go too fast, the cost
may impede electrification, if we go too slow, we're not going to
have the supply available as demand increases. So it really is
about thinking this through orderly and it's an all hands on deck
Okay, moving along here, maybe you could walk us through some of the scope for what's required to decarbonize Ontario's electricity system. What does an achievable pathway to net zero look like?
Yeah, that's the work of the IESO on a regular basis. I mean, I
can't underscore my last point enough, which is that it's vital
that the transition occurs in an orderly manner, we absolutely need
to act but we need to act in a carefully managed way that balances
decarbonisation with reliability and affordability. Large
infrastructure such as hydroelectric plants and nuclear facilities
and transmission lines can take 15-10 years, sometimes more to
build, significant investments in capital and materials and labor
will be required to build out a fully decarbonized system. And one
study I read estimated that 14,000 strong labor force participants,
that are that are currently working on our electricity
infrastructure would need to increase by a factor of six. So you
know, that's a huge investment in training and getting people ready
to build all the things we need to build. Indigenous communities
and municipalities also have a voice in how and where new
infrastructure is located. So meaningful and transparent
discussions about siting and land use will be needed. And while
many technologies will be needed to decarbonize the grid already
known, some are not known and not commercialized yet. And so those
are low carbon fuels small modular reactors still in development.
At this point, it'll be important for Ontario and for Canada to
continue to invest in these and other other innovations as well in
supporting the pathway. We need energy plans to be approved and new
infrastructure needs to be planned, permitted and cited. Regulatory
and approval processes such as the environmental impact assessments
need to be resourced, appropriately and streamlined to enable all
of these builds to happen. We also need the supporting transmission
infrastructure to be planned and built on on similar timelines as
demand growth and as new supply comes online and underlying all of
that we need to carefully manage the costs to ensure the actual
impact on total energy costs is affordable, and that they do not
diverge significantly, Ontario from those of our neighbors in
Manitoba and Quebec and in the US. So lots of again, lots of
facets, but work that can be itemized now and definitely plan
Cool. What are some of IESO's, no regret actions that can be taken
to help meet those growing demands?
Yeah, I think the minister anchored on some of those in his
Powering Ontario's Growth report, Ontario can certainly continue to
acquire new non-emitting resources and incentivize energy
efficiency through our Save on Energy programs. sector partners can
also begin planning and citing for new potential projects,
partnerships between municipal, provincial and federal governments
will also be key and we need to continue to develop those
relationships now, while we're also revisiting the regulatory
frameworks that may hinder and prevent progress. Last but certainly
not least, we must track our progress in an open and transparent
way. There's no one way we can say decarbonisation happens. It's a
gradual change that will take place over many years, and will
require lots of little steps to make progress. And certainly the
government's recent response to our reports puts in motion some of
those actions including asking us at the IESO to explore
opportunities to enable future generation in northern Ontario and
reducing the reliance on natural gas generation in the GTA. The
ministry has also asked the IESO to begin consultations on a
competitive transmitter selection framework for future lines with
electricity supply expected to continue to grow over the next 20 to
30 years, you know, that's what we're doing now, you know, in terms
of planning, but we're also we're also working to secure new
capacity and leveraging our existing assets. So that is through our
very thorough resource adequacy framework, which was put in place
that outlines our strategy to get that new supply in the short,
medium and long term. A key piece of this is competitive
procurements and the processes that have been used to date
including the annual capacity auction, and but you know, there's
also work being done that we're leveraging by our energy efficiency
and demand response programs that that get back to what individuals
and what individual businesses can do to support decarbonisation.
We've got market renewal going on. We've got medium and long term
procurements. So lots of action underway. All of them no regret
that can that can be continued to to meet this
Now Lesley, with electricity supply expected to grow the next 20 to 30 years, what is the IESO doing to secure new capacity? And how is it leveraging existing assets?
Yeah, great question. So in terms of generating new supply or
acquiring new supply, that's really our resource adequacy
framework. It outlines, you know, the work we're doing both in the
short, medium and long term to competitively procure new resources.
We've recently done the procurements for batteries and for natural
gas, upgrades and expansions. We'll be launching our next
procurement very shortly and designing the one after that. So it's
that layer cake approach that I mentioned. We've also, you know,
can can anchor back in the strides we've taken in the current
procurements to secure we've had great resources come to bear and
participate in those procurements, so we're very hopeful that
future procurements will also be very successful
Now hoping you can help demystify this next one for our listeners.
What is the Hydrogen Energy fund? What is special about hydrogen,
and how do you think it will support Ontario's reliability needs
Yeah, it is, it is a new word and a new way of thinking for for a lot of folks. So let me dig into that. But the goal of our hydrogen Innovation Fund is to investigate, evaluate and demonstrate how low carbon hydrogen technologies could be integrated into the grid. The new program will enable the IESO to test the ability of hydrogen to support grid reliability and affordability, but also the role it can play in broader decarbonisation. Hydrogen has the potential to reduce electricity sector emissions, but it could also be used as a replacement fuel in other more fossil fuel intensive industries such as transportation. From the electricity sector's perspective, hydrogen has the potential to provide several essential services, it can smooth the output from renewable resources such as wind and solar, it can be blended into natural gas to reduce total emissions and could be used to offer several services such as peaking generation, grid efficiency and storage. But all that being said, it's not an ultimate solution. While hydrogen can be used to generate electricity producing it also requires electricity. So the integration of hydrogen like all new resources will require a balanced approach, one that can make more efficient use of our existing electricity system assets which the Hydrogen Innovation Fund will help with the interest in the fund has been very high. The IESO has received more than 25 applications. The projects are in flight now are undergoing review right now. And we should be in a position to announce the successful projects in September.
Lesley. Let's now look globally, what are other countries doing right, that Canada should consider emulating or even adopting?
Yeah, I think I think this is, you know, very important. We very
much focused on on Canada or in you know, in our case, Ontario for
answers. And the IESO is just one of many electricity system
operators worldwide. And I certainly am always keeping an eye on
what other countries are doing. However, every jurisdiction has
unique circumstances, which include laws, regulations, geography
and politics that can sometimes make comparisons difficult. In
North America, specifically, Ontario is a leader in many ways and
the pathways report is a very well thought out approach. And so I
think that's an area of interests that others have looked to us,
that, coupled with our experience of phasing out coal fired
generation, we're in a good position really to set examples for
other jurisdictions looking to do similar work, and certainly in
conversations with my IESO counterparts around North America, we're
having robust discussions and learning from each
Well, looking to the future of this industry and Canada's approach,
what is giving you hope?
Well, electricity is being looked at to support decarbonisation of
other sectors and to support economic growth. That's hugely
exciting to see the broad impact our industry is having on society.
And as we engage with broader audience, the collaborative spirit
across the sector, across the province and across the country,
we're seeing... certainly gives me hope that Ontario can achieve
decarbonisation through an orderly transition that balances that
decarbonisation desire with reliability and affordability that are
at the heart of our mandate.
Lastly, Lesley, we always end our interviews with some rapid fire
questions. Are you ready?
I'm ready. These were some of the more difficult questions, Dan. So I'm certainly ready for these.
Okay. What are you reading right now?
So I just finished reading a really great book, how big things get done by bent flyvbjerg. And I think it's making the rounds really good book on large projects, and what we can learn from past failures in large projects, which will be important information for Ontario.
Cool. Thanks for sharing. Now, what would you name your boat if you
had one? Or do you have one?
Well, I have a very, very small boat, and I have yet to name it.
But now now that you've got me thinking about that the wheels are
turning. At the moment, it's new, so I'm just learning to park it.
And when I say park, my my partner rolls his eyes and says "you
mean dock" and I say no, Park. So next time we speak Dan, I'll have
a name for the boat.
Very good. Who is someone that you truly admire?
I think this was the most difficult question. There are people I
admire in many aspects of my life. And I certainly wouldn't want to
single out anyone or miss out on another person. But if I can be a
bit general, given the role I'm in, I'd have to say it's the people
who have the vision and foresight to see what's coming in the
future and to plan and build those large projects and large
infrastructure investments needed to get
What is the closest thing to real magic that you've witnessed?
Well, I am a lover of being outdoors, so perhaps for me it would be on the morning after a deep snowfall on the trails around my friend's property being the first snow shoes out on the trails on a Sunday morning. It's so quiet and so beautiful and it just feels magical.
Now what has been the biggest challenge to you personally, since
the pandemic began?
I think for me, it would be helping my mom stay connected to to our
community as as an elderly widow in her own home. It was a lot of
one on one contact for me with her and making sure that I could
connect her to a broader social network. So she didn't feel so
isolated. And I think that was, you know, well worth the challenge.
But it was a it was a challenge.
Okay. We've all been watching just a little bit more TV or even
Netflix lately. What is your favorite show?
So I spend very little time watching TV and when I do or, or
Netflix, and when I do, it's mostly documentaries. I want to give a
call out for a course I'm taking right now online, which is the
closest thing to TV, I'm taking the University of Alberta's
indigenous Canada course, which has been for me tremendous value in
helping me understand indigenous worldviews and perspectives. But I
did just watch a Netflix series on the Tour de France, which was a
fascinating look at the teams and tactics as well as the effort
that the athletes endure over that 21 days.
Okay, cool. Now, lastly, what is exciting you about your industry
Oh, my goodness. My teams have heard me use this before everything
everywhere all at once. We have an opportunity as an industry right
now to guide generational change and to have an impact on the
environment and the economy far past our working lives. And that is
Well, Lesley, this is it. We've reached the end of another episode of the Think Energy podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. If our listeners wanted to learn more about you, or your organization, how can they connect?
Thank you. Yes. www.ieso.ca. Our website has a wealth of resources to help listeners become more energy literate. And to understand the work we do. And you can find me on LinkedIn at Lesley Gallinger.
Again, thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you had a lot of fun. Cheers.
I did! The questions were tough, but very interesting and they certainly got to the heart of the work that we do at the IESO. Thank you, Dan, for for your interest in our work and for asking those questions that allow me to speak and highlight the work of the incredible professionals that work at the IESO.
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of the Think Energy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review wherever you're listening. And to find out more about today's guest or previous episodes, visit think energy podcast.com. I hope you will join us again next time as we spark even more conversations about the energy of tomorrow.